Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories

Welcome, Guest

Want to take part in these discussions? Sign in if you have an account, or apply for one below

Vanilla 1.1.2 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeMar 19th 2006 edited
     permalink
    Our day-to-day beliefs often come from established theories, but what about beliefs based on theories in progress? A new book asks literary and scientific thinkers about what they believe but cannot prove.
    - link to the show

    A radio program with talks from Richard Dawkins, Martin Rees and many others on the nature of science and belief. I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but looks mighty interesting.

    Let me know your thoughts...
    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeMar 23rd 2006 edited
     permalink
    I believe that this universe is just once example of an infinity of universes, each bound into a process of evolution similar to that observed in the animal kingdoms of Earth.

    I believe that the survival of the fittest equivalent of this universe development is the production of conscious, intelligent beings within the said universes which themselves evolve under similar processes.

    I believe that the universes which are most likely to produce conscious beings eventually capable of manufacturing new universes and/or escaping the confides of their own universe are more likely to pass on their 'genetic lineage' to new offspring universes, replete with all the evoiutionary advantages of their parents.

    In short, I believe that all reality is a process driven by evolutionary forces in the blind pursuit of conscious intelligence and (eventually) a kind of ultimate, MULTIversal self awareness.

    BUT I can't prove it - (and I think I might get locked up if I tried)

    What do you believe but can't prove?
  1.  permalink
    I like the idea that universes spawn other universes which 'catch on' to awareness quicker than the last just like children do here. It's the Law of Accelerated Returns (http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html). Everything in existence is getting smarter and more aware, faster. Check out Eamonn Healy in "Waking Life" for more.

    What happens when the multiverse becomes aware of itself? Are you face to face with God? (I don't think of God as a guy or even in human form, to me it's the binding or animating force or spirit behind all things in existence known and unknown in this universe and the next) I can't prove any of this but hasn't 'God' always been man's greatest mystery since the beginning of conscience thought.
    • CommentAuthorwhat?
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2006
     permalink
    we may be bound by time but what would be the attributes of a consciousness as free to move in time as in space? Fred Alan Wolf is worth a look on the subject...which reminds me, it's nearly time for new Dr. Who.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2006 edited
     permalink
    There is a race of creatures in Kurt Vonnegut's novel, Slaughterhouse Five, which have the ability to see time as if it were a 4th dimension of space. The Tralfamadorians thus have very different philosophies from us on the nature of existence:
    The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die. He is still very much alive in the past, so it is very silly for people to cry at his funeral. All moments, past, present and future, always have existed, always will exist. The Tralfamadorians can look at all the different moments just that way we can look at a stretch of the Rocky Mountains, for instance. They can see how permanent all the moments are, and they can look at any moment that interests them. It is just an illusion we have here on Earth that one moment follows another one, like beads on a string, and that once a moment is gone it is gone forever.
    The protagonist of the story, Billy, is kidnapped by the Tralfamadorians and for the rest of his life suffers an existence disjointed in time. The causality of his life thus extends outside of the normal flow of things:
    Billy is spastic in time, has no control over where he is going next, and the trips aren’t necessarily fun. He is in a constant state of stage fright, he says, because he never knows what part of his life he is going to have to act in next.
    It's the best book I've read about time travel, time perception, and as you mentioned, consciousness extended in a variety of temporal ways.

    I definitely try and perceive my life as a series of segments, rather than a continuous whole. It helps me put things into perspective if when I 'look back' I see a different me performing the acts of the past. Every big change in my life signifies a new era of 'me'. I don't know if other people think like this, but just from the way we use language to express our self history I would doubt it. How many yous have there been?
    Among the imaginary constructions created by the intellect working in service of the will, perhaps the most delusive is the view it gives us of ourselves - as continuous unified individuals...

    - Arthur Schopenhauer
    • CommentAuthorwhat?
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2006
     permalink
    Oh bullshit! In '71 I defied my highschool english teacher and choese SH5 as the novel I'd study for matriculation....I'd found it in the council library and thought, good! science fiction! Needless to say it blew my little head off. Caterpillars with babies legs at one end and oldpersons legs at the other. now, I always found Tim Leary apain in the arse and am not too inclined to try to discuss the ineffable but, under the circumstances...in the right set and setting, it's possible to go beyond this temporal anthill, but it's IMPOSSIBLE to describe, 'description' being a temporal term, it comes after seeing and implies the intent to transfer information etc. All I could do was say to myself..ok, you can never take this insight back but you can remember that such an insight is possible and thankyou mushrooms. We live in a constrained world...probably deliberately.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2006 edited
     permalink
    What's bullshit?

    I'm not saying it is possible to live off the temporal map, just that thinking about time in different ways can be useful. Fuck Leary... Drugs definitely opened my eyes to the ways reality mediates consciousness, it never sent me into alternate realities (although at the time it seemed that way). Time and consciousness have a severely fucked up relationship. I blogged about it a long while ago here:

  2. Opening the Doors of Perception: Hallucination, Schizophrenia and Reality


    • and here:

  3. A continuous trajectory through a high-dimensional mental space


  4. It will continue to fascinate me (as EVERYTHING to do with consciousness generally does)...
    • CommentAuthorwhat?
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2006
     permalink
    the 'bullshit' is an australianism denoting surprise and delight
    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2006
     permalink
    In my lingo 'bullshit' denotes something smells of shit, i.e. you are talking out of your arse...
    • CommentAuthorwhat?
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2006
     permalink
    I must be more careful....though cowturds are the home of the better class of fungi... I have some fond memories of bullshit...and also, herbivore poop aint that bad
  •  permalink
    What would be the attributes of a consciousness free to move in time and space?
    I want to hear what the veterans have to say. I'm only 24 but this kind of talk interests me, i'm always down to hear other peoples ideas.
    • CommentAuthorwhat?
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2006
     permalink
    We're all familiar with moving in space, as for time..it's not so much moving through it as encompassing it. We seem to experience a permanent sense of the present with the awareness of change giving rise to the feeling of time passing. Be buggered if I know what I'm talking about, I'm not usually awake this early. Maybe it's like looking at a landscape, a panorama, experiencing time like space, as a whole. Woops, back to Tralfamadore.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2006 edited
     permalink
    Being 24 has it's advantages... I only made it here myself last month...

    I believe that to some extent human consciousness is already able to freely move through time and space. For instance, next time you go fumbling in the bottom of your rucksack for that missing pencil just contemplate for a moment where you perceive your consciousness to be. Its amazing to me that if I think about it I feel like my consciousness is existant at the tips of my fingers, the palm of my hand, and not where my pre-conceived notions tell me it is.

    Normally when asked where your consciousness is your likely to point at a space somewhere between your eyes. This is completely natural as it is the mid point where most of your important senses meet, but I think its interesting because of how easily we take it for granted.

    You can go further with this idea. Just peer through a telescope at a star billions of light years away. Where is your consciousness now? Maybe part of it can feel the pressure of the eye piece around your eye, maybe another part of it is perceived at your hand as it twists the telescope into position. It feels to me though like my consciousness is somehow at the star, and since the star is on the other side of time and space (quite literally) so, maybe, is a portion of me.

    Of course this is all widely metaphysical, but that doesn't mean it should be ignored. Where has your consciousness been whilst you've been reading this? Still in your head? or actually with the words as they dance across the screen in front of you? Now that I mention it, where are your hands at this moment, how are your feet positioned, how is that pendulum on the grandfather clock swinging in the corner....

    and so on...

    Your consciousness is all over the place and at the same time never quite where you thought it was.
  •  permalink
    That is a very good point. I never looked at it like that.

    While i was reading that my consciousness was light years away at the star and at the same time on the mouse.
    Thats only moving through space.
    Time also?


    I got to give you props for your website, very cool stuff.
    • CommentAuthorwhat?
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2006
     permalink
    A photon does not experience the passage of time, it really does touch it's home star and our retina instantaneously.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeApr 15th 2006
     permalink
    That's an interesting point. I'd never thought about relativity from the photon's perspective.

    As you reach the speed of light time dilation approaches infinity....

    This universe is incomprehensibly weird
    • CommentAuthorwhat?
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2006 edited
     permalink
    precisely, so why do we try to comprehend it? Just for fun methinks
    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2006
     permalink
    I do tend to think that in assessing time and consciousness we find a clue as to what the fuck is going on out there. A clue mind you is a long way from a revelation. Will there ever be another Einstein-like revolution in perception?
    • CommentAuthorEndymion
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2006
     permalink
    Yes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDanieru
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2006 edited
     permalink
    And what will it be? Perhaps as Dr. Orphusi suggests in the Dolphin Language post it in is other forms of consciousness that the answer will be found.

    Brains ain't just a human only commodity. Einstein and Doplhins... Hmmm
  • 1 to 20 of 20

    1.  
    Add your comments
      Username Password
    • Format comments as
     
    Preview
    Back to Discussions Top of Page